Monday, December 12, 2011

Is Michelle Duggar Trusting God or Just Being Selfish?

Ever since the news came out about the Duggars losing their 20th child there have been some big online debates.  Some are sad for them, angry at them, don't give a crud, can relate, or are quick to judge and want everyone to know.  

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion.  This is America, right?  What happens when you get a lot of people who believe their way is right and that's that?  No arguing with them.  If you disagree with them they'll make fun of you, mock you, swear at you, insult you.  What causes this kind of anger in people over just a disagreement in beliefs?

I'm so glad I don't live in a country where how many kids I have is forced on me.  Whether I want one kid or 20, that is my business.  Not anyone else's.  Whether a doctor tells me it's healthy for me to have another one or not, that's my business.  Whether people think we make enough money or not, well, that's also our business.  Just as you have your own.  Welcome to America.  

Why is there such an anger towards large families these days?  People act like this is a new thing. Do people remember life before birth control pills?  My grandma remembers.  She had 9 kids and my husband's grandmother had 10.  She gave birth to her last child at the age of 45.  Having your last child at this age was common.  Yet, people are attacking Michelle Duggar for being pregnant at the age of 45.  Why?  Is it not Michelle's body as it was yours when you got your tubes tied?  Did the doctor force you to do that?  No, you were given a choice.  I think people who have such a dislike towards large families wouldn't of liked living in the days before birth control or the understanding of Natural Family Planning.

"Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward." Psalm 127:3

Remember when having kids was considered a blessing from God?  I don't know if maybe after reading the bible several times through I somehow skipped any scripture on limits but please correct me if I'm wrong.  Where in the bible does God give limits?  I know the world can give TONS of worldly advice on the matter.  Money, doctors, health, material things, age.  I'm still waiting, and have been for a long time, for someone to point out the only opinion that matters to me and that's from the Word of God that there is a limit.

My pastor said it well.  He said, "People who treasure things above children just can't understand how someone who puts children above things can enjoy it so much.  They just don't get it.  Your children are your treasures.  Not material things." 

Recently, I heard the argument that it's not fair to the siblings. That EVERY SINGLE person they've met from a large family hated growing up in a large family.  That they had to be the mom and ended up not wanting to have kids when they are older.  Really?  So those 2 people they met are now a blanket for all large families?  Sure you have the parents that try to turn their kids into their own personal slaves but I've seen this in small families as well.  I've even seen this from families with only 2 kids.  Even if you took a poll and found 10 people from large families to say they hated being in one, you cannot throw the blanket over millions that are in one.  My husband's family LOVE being apart of a large family and are all really close.

Living your life according to scriptures will always, always bring hatred from the world.  I've learned that when the world agrees with my way of living, I might need to reexamine my life according the scripture.  Usually, when you are living for Christ (not just saying it but living it), you will get backlash from the world.  Well, smile, because that usually means you're doing something right.  Jesus died on the cross with the world spitting on Him, mocking, cursing, and laughing at him. Learning Activities-First Month Free-Click Here!

Another argument people use is that large families make their kids work too hard.  Really?  Let's look back and see how kids worked around In the late 1700's and early 1800's.  An article called History of Child Labor points out that a lot of children either worked on farms or in factories for very long hours every day.  Over the years it seems to have turned into the other extreme.  Kids shouldn't have chores, teachers blamed for bad grades, and never even think about asking the older ones to keep an eye out for the little ones while mommy works on some paperwork or makes some phone calls. That is child abuse these days.  Well, the only problem with that is now employers are saying that kids are coming to work expecting an easy day, minimal effort, late to work, early to leave, and is expecting high pay. Whatever happened to a balance?  There is nothing wrong with expecting kids to have some responsibility around the house and even learn some about caring for others.  

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6

Regardless with what you believe, I think we should all have respect for each other.  I disagree with women using chemical birth control but I don't write hate notes on their page, send them mocking emails, or laugh at them for what I think is a lack of knowledge.  Facebook, TLC, and Saturday Night Live isn't my idea of research. The best thing any of us can do is our own bible study on issues and our own health studies.  We have to come to our own conclusions for ourselves and for our family and bathed in prayer.   In writing this, I am just hoping someone, anyone, will just understand that the best way to win someone over is using some respect and understand that not every person will agree or think exactly alike.


chercard said...

I am all for big families! I come from a family of 7 and my husband is from a family of 8. I have 5 children and would have had more had my body allowed me too. Here is where my opinion on Michelle Duggar comes in. I too had preeclampsia with my 4th and 5th. My 5th was born at 32 weeks and in the NICU for 6. My health was in serious jeopardy as was my baby's health. My doctor (who is a God fearing Christian) advised strongly against having another as it could put my life and a baby's on the line. I think we MUST take into account our health and the health of the baby. What are those 20 children going to do if they lose their mother? I think we must listen to medical professionals when we know they have our best interest in mind. I think the Duggars are amazing people and have great kids, but it worries me they are putting Michelle's life and future children in jeopardy.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Cheryl's comments. I believe God gave us many blessings and talents including the ability to use our God given intelligence to realize that prior health complications in a pregnancy may be a sign from God that it's time to stop. I understand from reading prior interviews with the Duggars that Michelle experienced preeclampsia with her second child's birth. I appreciate the point that if they stopped there they would not have the children they have now. However, I would humbly suggest there is a big difference having preeclampsia and/or other pregnancy complications in your 20s versus your 40s. I acknowledge the decision is the Duggars, not mine to make for them. I've been drawn to these Mega family blogs as I'm very interested in different kinds of families. I can not have biological children, but feel blessed to parent our two adoptive children. Perhaps being a parent of two and knowing that we will not have more colors my thoughts. I wish the Duggars well during what I am sure is a very difficult time.

Tasha said...

I love your post and the references to the past,my husband and i often comment on how 'children these days are so different,almost down right rude compared to how we were raised.We have 7 children,they all(well except the baby,lol) have chores,they help around the house,they babysit(yes even my boys)and help out with the general running of the household,ne it helping me bath the little ones or grabbing the washing off the line.They still have time to study,the older ones have part-time jobs and they have a great social life with their friends.But first and foremost they are well rounded and appreciative and give people respect.My eldest who is 17 actually came to me the other night,we all usually crowd on someones bed in the evening and chat,after all the other children had gone to bed and told me "mum I love having lots of siblings,I always have someone to talk to and hang out with,thanks mum".My heart sang and i realised then that I don't care what other people say I am doing the right thing and my children are going to be great adults.
As for the duggars,I love them,Michelle is not a silly woman she knows what her body is capable of and so does God.

Virginia Revoir said...

Loved your comment, Tasha!

Anonymous said...

Cheryl commented that Michelle is risking her life and that scares Cheryl. We haven't been in on any of Michelle duggar's exams and even if a Dr. comments that Michelle is risking her life, that Dr. would not have access to her medical records. The Duggars are following their beliefs.

chercard said...

Anonymous I am just stating what my doctor told me at 39...once you have had preeclampsia, especially as you get older the chances of having it again even more severe are great. I like the Duggars, I admire them, I am just concerned for her welfare and the baby.

chercard said...

Preeclampsia is unpredictable and often happens very suddenly without warning. Mothers die from it, that is why I am concerned.

Karen said...

My understanding is that often women have miscarriage(s) at the end of their child-bearing years when they simply allow however many children to come. Anyway several women I know with larger families have experienced that.

Not One Too Many said...

I wish the Duggar family all the best. I grieve with them as they grieve; our family has experienced the loss of a baby at 35 weeks and it is devestating. I don't know that the issue is how many children this mom has, so much as "Is there something practical I can do when a family loses a child"?

Zara said...

It isn't fair to the older siblings. On the show, Michelle almost never used to cook, clean, interact with her kids beyond a couple of words, or do anything else even remotely motherly. She's been more of a parent as of late, but only to her youngest, Josie. Her other children are taken care of exclusively by their older sisters.

There's a big difference between having an older child watch their baby brother while Mommy makes a fifteen minute phone call and forcing your daughters to be solely responsible for raising their younger siblings once they hit the ripe, motherly age of ten because Mommy isn't capable of caring for all the children she chose to bring into the world.

It's Michelle's body and ultimately Michelle's choice, but when that choice comes at the expense of all her other children, then she's a terrible mother. And since Michelle has taken the last vestiges of privacy from her family and turned her home into a media circus, then the public certainly has the right to exclaim that she's a terrible mother.

I'm very sorry for the Duggar's loss. My heart goes out to the kids and I hope their parents and TLC allow them to mourn on their own terms and in privacy.

missang said...

Thank you for an insightful article. I am enjoying your blog. I agree that it is a personal choice. I don't condemn them. Not everyone who chooses to allow God to plan their families gives birth to 19 children. This is an exception. God must think they are doing something right. I don't understand why there is so much debate on the Duggars. Why is there not more debate on the families of "Sister Wives" or other "reality" shows?

Jessi said...

First of all we have to remember God gives us children. We can try to all we want, but it is up to God to give someone a child. It is not your own free will or choice. If it was I would have a child by now! Yes people make the choice not to use birth control, but that doesn't mean you automatically get a baby. Believe me I haven't used BC for over 4 years of us being married, and I don't have one baby. It is not free will alone. If God wanted Mrs. Dugger not to have more kids, he wouldn't give her more. The Bible tells us not to look for "signs". So her having a miscarriage is not a sign from God, or whatever other nonsense I hear about that. God speaks to us trough his word today. It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible if you have a miscarriage it means to stop having kids. God is smarter than us, he is perfectly capable of decided how many kids we should have, without our help. God should decide how many people on on HIS earth, that HE made. Most people don't totally trust God like they should. Jenny is right, when you do trust God and do what is right you will get back lash. The Bible says to count it a joy to be "persecuted" for his sake. Although what we consider "persecution" is nothing compared to what Christ did for us! Other people have been beat and/or died for their faith. Mrs. Duggar has had 2 miscarriages and 19 babies . I would have to say I think her body could handle another pregnancy. Her first miscarriage was after her first child. She had preeclampsia with her first set of twins. She went on to have 16 more babies after that! If she didn't, those lives would not exist. I bet people a 100 or more years ago would be laughing at us!The norm was about 12 kids then. Preeclampsia can be mostly avoided by a healthy diet like the Brewer Pregnancy Diet. I know it doesn't prevent it 100%, but will in most cases. It does not just happen for no reason, it means you are malnourished some how, or are doing something to make your blood pressure rise, like dealing with a crises. That is why bed rest is the treatment for it.
Also, I wonder how people know so much about the Duggar's life from a very censored 30 minute show, once a week. People have no idea how much Michelle talks to her kids, plays with them, homeschools them, ect. People seem to just assume a lot of things, then say it as fact. After people hear it so much, they will form this idea about them, that is not based on fact at all.

chercard said...

Jessi...I am interested how much research you have done on preeclampsia. I had it quite severely and I eat very well, I was exercising the first part of my pregnancy, wasn't dealing with a major stress and I still had it after 4 other healthy pregnancies. After researching it quite extensively I found that doctors aren't sure why women get it, it just happens to many women (of course if you are unhealthy, obese, have diabetes etc it increases your risk). Another huge risk factor is age and if you have had it before, so Michelle is at high risk for it.

And as far as God giving babies if he thinks we are supposed to have them, what about the teen moms, moms addicted to crack and meth? Is that God's will or is that a natural consequence of actions? I think sometimes God allows natural laws to work. I agree that God gives babies about 99% of the time, but other times it is a consequence of natural law and sometimes health problems indicate that maybe we are supposed to use our common sense and stop. Modern medicine and knowledge is also inspired by God, many women have died before some of this knowledge came forth due to complications from pregnancy/childbirth. God gave us a strong mind and common sense to use as well.

Jessi said...

It seems my comment came off as offensive to you. I'm very sorry if it did, I didn't mean it to in any way. I also didn't write that comment to you. I'm sorry you have had such tough pregnancies. That would be a hard choice for anyone to make to keep having children.
I just think in Mrs. Duggars case, she would be fine to have another, just as she went on to have 16 after her last preeclampsia pregnancy. I have always heard her doctor say she is very healthy and able to carry a child fine. I just hate how harsh I have seen people be towards them. I do not believe God would make her have miscarriages to try to tell her not to have more, he would just not give her more. He also could have her start menopause.
God made natural law so babies come from him 100% of the time. Yes babies are born to teen moms ect, everything is for a purpose. God creates life, we can no way do that on our own. I think people that go though infertility understand more that it is up to God, and no matter what we do, we cannot just decide to have a child. God doesn't make mistakes , he doesn't say "oh no they weren't supposed to have that many children, I messed up." You cannot go wrong putting all your trust in God.
I said diet is not 100% the reason, so yours maybe was not. I have done much research on the subject,and studies by doctors have shown that following a certain pregnancy diet can cure and prevent preeclampsia. However it doesn't 100% of the time. Here are some links I would suggest reading, and might help you if you get preeclampsia.
I have also read where doctors who have had women with preeclampsia, put them on the brewer diet, and it cured it! These were women that caught it early enough to do that. So I don't think it randomly happens for some unknown reason.
It is not my intent to argue with anyone on here. If don't doesn't agree than I guess you don't, you certainly don't have too :) I in no way intend to be offensive. I know it is hard when we are typing and not talking to know how the other person meant to come off as.

Jessi said...

sorry typo I meant to put " if you don't agree."

Serial Mommy said...

While I am not a Christian and I don't believe that I should trust God to provide, I do believe that to each their own. I do believe that we were given the knowledge about ourselves and the way our bodies work so that we can be healthier and happier people living our lives as we see fit. I believe that what is right for me and my kids may not be right for you and your kids and that's perfect OK. After all, at the end of the day, it's me sleeping in my bed and you sleeping in yours.

I come from a large family, a non-religious one at that. I loved it, I still do. I know that I will always have someone I can talk with and be around. I have a lot of kids. Many people think I'm crazy (especially considering that a lot of them are special needs). However, it's MY family, not theirs to raise and support and care for and my husband and I get to make that very personal choice. We are choosing not to continue to have children, but I'm not going to look at someone else and tell them that they should do as we are. Who am I to do that?

Whether Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar have more children is up to them. I am assuming they are doing so with the guidance of doctor simply because of the difficulties she had with her last pregnancy. Even with those difficulties, who am I to say she shouldn't have another child if her doctor gives her the medical ok? And honestly, even if her doctor doesn't give her the medical ok (I know of some women who have gone on to have children even when their doctors advised against it) who am I to say she shouldn't do that. That is between her and her husband and her family, who's life I am not a part of, that I don't lead.

All of that rambling to say this simply. Whether you have no children or 42, it's up to you. Whether you leave that choice up to God or the natural powers that be or the agnostic doctor down the hall that's up to you. At the end of the day, you live your life, I'll live mine. As long as you don't try to tell me how I'm supposed to live my life, I'll offer you that same respect and courtesy.

FaithfulMommy said...

I really enjoyed your post Virginia and the scripture. I have to repeat Psalm 127 3-5 many times to my family and friends.

Anonymous said...

Be fruitful and multiply right?

I don't have any problems with Michelle Duggar having so many children. Her family did it right.

I DO, however, have a problem with those large families that are working our government system like crazy.

If you can't afford to have children and are seeking state and government assistance then I think it's time to stop.

I have 2 kids and my husband and I work our butts off to make ends meet. It is not right for those families to be mooching off of what we have worked so hard for. We're paying for OUR family, not theirs.

Try walking in our shoes and see what it's like to work hard and play hard. I would love to be able to stay home and take care of our kids and even add more to the bunch. But we are comfortable and this is all we can afford.

Virginia Revoir said...

Anonymous, it is true there are families milking the government but so are people in general. There are tons of people living on welfare because they get paid more to be than having a minimum wage job. Those that turn down raises on their job because they don't want to lose their food stamps. There are also large families that might have been doing fantastic and lost everything in the fall of the economy. I've learned that there are so many scenarios. Yes, people do abuse the system. I believe the health insurance department in general is a total rip. So many people are getting ripped off every month from their paychecks and can't even afford to have one kid on insurance. It's crazy. For me, if paying some taxes so some families can afford some medical care, it's really not a big deal. And yes, we get a chunk taken out of our paychecks but I'm happy to do it. Not for those that are abusing it but people who really need it.

Anonymous said...

You have so many good points in this blog post. I agree with you. Some people are just not meant to have a large family. It doesn't mean that nobody should. I have four children and if I could manage, I'm sure I'd have lots more, but four is enough for me and I love every one of my blessings :) My youngest wasn't even supposed to be here, according to MY plan. My husband was supposed to get a vasectomy but kept putting it off. God made sure I got my little boy and he is so precious. I'm glad God is in control and not me.